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Rep Kingsley Ogundu Chinda is a lawyer, he is the Peoples Democratic Party PDP caucus leader in the Green Chamber, a vibrant member representing Obio/Akpor Federal Constituency of Rivers State, in this chat on Nigeria Right Now TV program monitored by TheNewsGuru.com, (TNG), he spoke extensively on PIA, fuel subsidy, menace of soot in the Niger Delta region, zoning and other national issues, excerpt.
The viral video where Mr president immediately came on board where he strongly argued that there is nothing like subsidy but we see it coming up every now and then and at a certain stage in Nigeria we thought that it has been actually taken off. But the government of the day has just said that subsidy will continue till the next 18months, what is the situation like. And then PIB, what does this now do to PIA, can we take it from that end?
Let me start by saying that very sincerely at our level, that is the level of trust that the public, Nigerians and indeed people, humanity have placed on us, we should not be too hasty to run into conclusion. I think that the president perhaps was not aware of the happenings within the country when he made that statement that there was nothing like subsidy; only to come in and face the reality.
And unfortunately he is still not bold enough to take that step to ensure that “subsidy” is removed because I am one of those who believed that in truth Nigerians are subsidizing the government and those of us that are in public office, it is not the other way round.
So this subsidy is not actually for the Nigerian populace, it is mostly for the people who are at the helm of affairs.
It is mostly for the elites, the few elites are those that are benefiting from the subsidy because if you look at how much profit people make, individuals make out of subsidy and you will realize that it is actually not for Nigerians. If you also calculate how much leaves this country in terms of subsidy, what quantity of the subsidized product do we consume locally, what amount actually goes to the pocket of the ordinary Nigerians on the street, you will find out that it will be less than 15% of what the country is paying as subsidy.
So it is shifted forward, 18months from now, a new government would have taken over.
That is a defeatist strategy as far as I am concerned, that is a strategy of somebody who has lost it, who has nothing to offer, who wants to reprobate and approbate but doesn’t know the method to go about it neatly.
You cannot raise issue of subsidy, condemn it squarely and roundly and then give your words to Nigerians that you are going to stop it, only to turn around at the last minute to pass the bulk not even to your own government but to the next government, I think that is how a true leader should not act.
The PIA, the thinking was that by the end of February this year that everything concerning because of the existence of that Act now that subsidy would not be an issue to be mentioned anymore, so what does this do to the PIA?
It makes rubbish of the haste with which the PIA was passed. You know some of us, yes we are aware, for decades we have been clamouring for this Act but if you find out what the problem has been, the problem is not from Nigerians, the problem is not from the parliament, the problem is still from outside of Nigeria and outside of the parliament and it requires boldness on the part of government to take care of these problems and sincerity of intent and purpose to take care of them properly.
The PIA that we have today it will be a difficult instrument to implement the way it is couched. One it does not enjoy the confidence of Nigerians particularly the Niger Delta area where the entire thing is centred. It doesn’t enjoy their confidence and because it doesn’t enjoy their confidence, implementation will be herculean that is one.
Two, you have also seen because it was done in a haste, you have seen that weeks thereafter we were bringing amendments and I can still assure you that is not the end to the amendments to the PIA, more amendments will still come.
Yes, with the issue of subsidy now, definitely it has to be amended for subsidy to even be captured.
Yes some people will argue that bills are supposed to be amended but when you pass a law and within the first two weeks several amendments are being proposed to that same law, then something is wrong with the law abinitio; it is a pointer to that fact.
I am still happy that we have managed to pass it but we need to tinker it properly to build confidence of people in this Act and also to make it implementable, a clear example is the issue of subsidy.
Before the PIA was passed we truncated everywhere once PIA is passed the issue of subsidy will be forgotten, it will just be taken care of, we don’t need any government pronouncement but low and behold the contrary is what we see.
Look at the board that was set up, before commencement, that board was dissolved a new one is set up and we will continue to have this back and forth movement without actually moving from where we are; nothing has changed after the PIA was signed.
Let’s bring it to your state, the governor of your state Nyesom Wike recently embarked on this war against illegal refineries and all of that, what is your take on it and what steps can government take differently to ensure that this thing is resolved.
Firstly, the Governor of my state Governor Wike is passionate when it comes to Rivers state and Rivers people and he is ready to go miles to take any risk to ensure that he protects the state.
The issue of soot, we have been crying to the federal government, to come in and take our responsibility on this matter. In fact as the chairman of the committee on public spending I have even insisted that an environmental audit of the state and in fact Niger Delta area be included in the auditor general’s report to the national assembly to enable us get to the roots of the issues and then provisions made for it in the budget, that was done but the federal government did not execute it. We have brought motions to the parliament.
Why was it not executed?
It was not executed because it was not funded, that is what we do at the federal level, it is selective funding.
Now we have brought motions on the floor of the parliament, both on the house of reps and the senate on the issue of soot in Niger Delta and called on the federal government to take positive steps to ensure that the lives of our people are protected, nothing was done.
The Governor has waited, the Governor has discussed this issue with us members of National Assembly and we agreed to push for it but he has waited over the years but it appears the federal government is not even interested in what is happening in the Niger Delta and so he had to take that step and thank God it is yielding some results.
But we still call on the federal government, you don’t leave this alone to the states. When we talked about state police, some people said it is going to be used negatively. How can the Governor, with us civilians carry out this kind of tasks without us being in charge of the security apparatus, it is difficult but yet he challenged the situation.
When officers are even involved.
When the governor has even come out to say that some officers of government in high places particularly security officers appear to be involved in this action. So it is like you are going against the armed forces, it is unfortunate really.
On Electoral Amendment Bill:
Nigerians woke up to 2022 knowing that it is a political year even though sadly the templates that ought to guide the political year which is the electoral act amendment bill that the president refused his assent to and sent back. We thought that maybe the National Assembly members will do a quick job take out the areas or include the areas that the president pointed to and all of that. But you went on break and while on break issues, I have had house of reps members here, I have had senators on this show who talked about their grouse on why the president declined his assents. But here we are, you have gone through the process again and re-amendment and captured the indirect primaries and direct primaries and of course also the consensus. What is your take about all of these?
Let me be straight, I don’t believe in the entire system, I strongly believe that something is fishy within the system.
Now I take us back to the PIA, it didn’t take this long for the president to assent to the PIA, he didn’t wait for 30days to almost elapse for him to assent to the PIA; these are signals, we have passed through this route in the last assembly and we were out of time and I can tell you that is the same route we are treading.
And what are the arguments; direct primaries, indirect primaries, consensus candidature, those things are not germane issues as to fizzle out the real benefits that Nigerians and in fact democracy will get from the amendment of the electoral act.
Particularly that electronic transmission of results.
Apart from the electronic transmission of results, the electoral body itself is further empowered and made independent by that Act. Issues of setting a ceiling and expenditures, issues of transparency in the electoral system are all contained in the amendments; so why should you be talking of direct or indirect primaries, these are things that are happening in the system as we speak today.
Which is actually a party affair.
Yes internal party matters we are over legislating sincerely we are over legislating by going into these issues. You cannot tell a party how to conduct their primaries, you cannot now tell candidates that you must sign that you are adopting a consensus.
When we do affirmation in our system presently, we do affirmation, when we do affirmation, some people are still not happy with it but majority agree that these persons should step down for the other and you keep begging and talking to the other parties, if you give them the opportunity to sign they will never sign and so you can never arrive at that settlement.
So these studs that we are placing on the path, we are placing studs on the path of true democracy and I can tell you that it wil be difficult for us to get it right until we get the foundation right and that foundation is how do we produce leaders in the system. If the leadership of the system does not come from the people truly, the people will lose confidence in the leadership and whatever you exercise will not be authority, it will be mere power because you are in position and the people are helpless, it is not that they love you, it is not that they believe in you and so it will be difficult also for you to implement your programmes, there will be suspicion.
So I would want to plead with Mr President and plead with my colleagues let us eschew these hurdles, sign this electoral amendment act, afterall the PIA we are amending it one or two weeks after, let us sign it; if there are areas for amendment, we propose amendment. I can tell you that we are already out of time, we are playing into their hands.
The whole issue that is playing out has nothing to do with Nigerians, it has nothing to do with the electoral act but it is an internal APC party issues that is now being forced on the entire country. Why should a party with conscience, people that are conscionable, why would they do this to a country?
The point now is, what is you the opposition, the PDP, what are you putting in place to checkmate this because you just told us here that the time is far spent already.
Firstly, whilst we were on recess, we actually as a caucus called on the leadership of the National Assembly to reconvene immediately and reconsider the amendment.
But you didn’t?
We did and passed same. In fact we made complete consensus, we made 100% consensus as a caucus saying that whatever Mr President has asked for give it to him, let him endorse and let us move on since it appears that we do not have the will, we cannot override Mr President, having seen the reality, give whatever he wants to him, let him endorse the amendment and let us continue gradually to strengthen our democratic system.
But we are not in charge of the leadership, even amongst the opposition, you know that you have opposition and you also have opposition, so it is a bit difficult, it is a difficult situation but we need to be realistic in whatever we are doing.
So I want to urge Nigerians to please call in our representatives to quickly as a matter of urgency in the interest of democracy in this country and the fact globally because whatever happens in Nigeria will affect every other parts of the world. Let us try and begin to get it right, let our votes begin to count, let the process shows that it is indeed transparent, we are not there but we are getting there and with this amendment to the electoral act it is a step ahead but if we lose it now we are going to wait until the next assembly before we can get it.
But do you have any fear that the president may not assent to it?
I have serious fears that the president will not assent to it as it is amended. I have my doubts, I will thank the Almighty God if the president assents to it and I challenge even the president that he should assent to it.
So let’s assume that he doesn’t sign, for the lawmakers what is the next step.
The next step is to override.
Can you override the president?
We will go for it as a caucus. In as much as we do not have the number we will support it, we will go for it in the interest of Nigeria and in the interest of democracy. It is left for the other caucuses to either join forces with us or do otherwise.
But as a caucus, the PDP caucus in the house of reps we will definitely go for it because that is our last resort. We have made all the concessions for this to go back to Mr President the way he wants it for him to assent. If he fails to assent a second time, even where we say by international practice, this is already out of time we will still move for an override, if we don’t achieve it in this election, then it will be in place for the next election that will take place in our country.
Let’s go to your party the PDP, the issue of 2023 is playing out already and one area of interest is the seat of president.
Where do you think this issue of zoning and no zoning, where is the position, as the leader of the caucus, what is the position of your party and what do you think that it should do?
Well on the issue of zoning of presidency, I think that gradually we will surmount it. The party has said that the seats are not zoned as it stands now and of course we will go with the position of the party. That is not for us as a caucus to determine.
But if it is as an individual, we might have our individual opinion but as a caucus we cannot determine the issue of zoning except there is an enlarge meeting where we are all invited and then we can discuss and agree on that.
Let me get your view as an individual.
As an individual I am from the southern part of the country and the north has been in office for 8years, it is elementary, any other person will think that it should go to the south.
But the argument of the north is that particularly PDP northerners are saying no that is the APC, that is not PDP, that PDP is not in power, that PDP ought to get to power first before they discuss issue of zoning.
Well that argument is lame and I don’t want us to go that way here in this interview. I wish I will have the opportunity to discuss with person who has that opinion and we will look at it properly. It is a lame argument, it is baseless, it has no strong foundation.
So power sharing from your point of view is beyond party.
Yes we are looking at the constitutional provisions. Now it says that these things we should consider issues of balancing, in our constitution it is contained, the issue of federal character. Will you now contend that because this is APC government issues of federal character should stay, it should not be considered until when PDP government comes then you can now start your own federal character, no it is not a strong argument.
But like I said that is for the party to take a decision and I can tell you as a party man, if the party says that it is going to the north, I will support the position of the party.
I have heard other PDP members who said that if the party makes a mistake of not zoning it to the south that they will work against the party.
Whatever my party decides I will go with the party, I will not work against the party. I will only make my opinion very strong and known but I will go with the final decision and put in my best to ensure that we realize our dream of taking over power and softening the hardship that is felt by all of us. I won’t say Nigerians because I also feel it.
Any parting shot from your state angle? Your governor is having his last shot, are you aspiring higher?
I keep praying that the spirit with which the governor started right from his first tenure that he will end with that same spirit to work assiduously for the people of Rivers state and leave a positive mark on the sand of time, he is doing that and I pray that God will continue to give him wisdom and strength to finish well.
And then at the national level, I would want to advice and I keep saying it that for all of us that are in position of leadership or to have the opportunity to serve our people, we should say only those things we mean and mean everything that we say.
People look on to us as examples and they ought to draw inspiration, they ought to draw hope and succor from us and our lifestyle, our pattern, the things we say and the things we do should give that hope, should give that encouragement, should give that confidence to the people we serve.
We are going into the next phase of electing new leaders, Nigerians should not lose hope, let us be strengthened, let us believe that our position and our votes will count and by the special grace of God our votes will actually count.
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